Perfect application for that. 20x4inch fat wheel double air crown fork with rebound and compression adjustment for electric enduro fat bike with a pretty good quality and suspension performance. The secret trick is that the new 29er-only 180mm Selva XL FR shares the same lowers at the regular Selva enduro fork, and with it the same . My idea was to pick up 2 forks, one single and one dual and make a side by side ride test on enduro trails, and see which one is the best. Cool to have soo much data, love to trick out trail bikes with dual crown. So, Pinkbike, how about a test RS lyrik ultimate vs zeb vs boxxer? All I really wanted was a downhill bike but could not affort one. @wakidesigned: actually we used to build bikes like that partly for cost savings but also for "urban assault" back in the day. My feelings were pretty good with both the forks even if the stopwatch assigned the title of faster fork to my enduro dual crown prototype Dorado. Are you scared you cant manage the tight corners with the dual crown? Conversely, the boxxer on my dh bike always feels over-dampened on the more natural trails. Enduro bikes with a dual crown, how about we just call it what it really is, a freeride bike. Keeping the unsprung masses light is a good little trick to improve suspension performance, the lighter the wheels, the better the suspension works. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I cant even ride my single crown to its limits Just wait for the new axle standard this will require. everyone else just likes the idea of it. The sudden pivot from AM dual crowns that came on the scene in the late 90s to "magically tapered steerers are just as good" is one of the dumbest moves the bike industry has made. I dont know where everyone is riding that the trails have no tight switchbacks, but other than true DH trails I often have to turn the bars more than a DC will allowand I dont have that euro nose wheelie skill dialed to the point I can rely on it. Prior to Bikerumor, Cory was a practicing Architect specializing in environmental sustainability, has designed bike shops & bike components and worked as a bike shop mechanic. The rest would be not significant. It's been almost a decade since I've used one, and never for climbing. And then Formula went to town machining extra grams out of the crowns. What does a knock block do? 9,171. Seems like a good idea Id try it out. Dual Crown just looks so much cooler and I really like the idea of steering lockouts. What works best for each rider is what matters. Weight is way overestimated by people thinking there's more advantage on the uphill than there actually is. MRP Bartlett is pretty much an Enduro dual crown. When descending fast, well distributed weight is way less of a problem than thought and most of the times it's an advantage to keep the bike stable and tracking better, of course there's always a fine line between the right amount and too much. It also seems like it might be a good replacement in terms of rigidity and smoothness compared to the dear departed Lefty long travel forks. Hahaha, Its 2021 but ain't no one ready for a dual crown gravel bike. (Weve even hung it on our scale to be sure!) In the dual crown we have 2 crowns, the forces are better distributed and handled, especially if the dual crown is an upside-down design. My 38 creaked after literally one weekend riding downieville. Looks killer. So I created an adapter to go 180 on enduro dorado, it was an interesting work to make my own custom caliper mount, a day of thinking, drawing, milling machine and hand filing, and the custom brake bracket came out nice and clean. Don't care about weight - my bike is already 37 pounds, but turning radius is a real concern for the tight switchback climbs we get here on the North Shore. No it's all bitching about creaking forks and out riding single crown forks. And then the top crown gets machined even further, with a direct mount stem interface for no-hassle bar mounting & security. Double crows just look awesome and they tell me that there is no way in hell Ill ever ride to their limit so feel free to send it. If your suspension is set right, the bike has good platform built in and you got a good engine anythings possible. So you are telling me that in 10 years, all we have managed to do is take 30-40mm of travel off of a downhill bike, stick 27.5's and a 12sp on there and called it a day? I spent over a year on dual crown enduro bike, it was fantastic, till it was stollen. Remember why boost exists! On single crown / classic stem combo, I felt the handlebar being a tiny bit more flexy side to side even if my carbon handlebar is high quality and really stiff, I also felt a minimally stiffer lower end which gives a little more snappier ride especially on direction changes: I dont wanna say this was better or worst, the single seemed to me a little more prone to snappier trajectory changes and more overall reactive and nervous, while the dual crown seemed more stable, more composed, perhaps more relaxing. There's allot more going on in bike weight than just the climbing weight. Why did everyone just forget about the Bartlett? Forget how u alctally feel. Enduro bikes used to be made to go up and down, now they are just slowly turning into full-out downhill bikes. ohlins is adjustable down to 140 or 160. bikerumor.com Reactions: shakazulu12, Suns_PSD, CaveGiant and 1 other person. I was not kidding on this, I really gave my best for a consistent and reliable test. There are likely tracks where a DC would be more stable and faster, but I doubt the pros want to switch back and forth between a DC and SC fork. I have a transition patrol and I really want a dual crown for it cause my lyrik makes all sorts of terrible noises and I cant afford a 38 or a zeb for my 250 pound dry weight. Where is the infamous dualcrownaddict when you need him? By Seb Stott So now may be the time to reconsider a double-crown fork! No, I use single crown fork even on DH frames. Ups, stiff aluminium stanchions hittig my carbon top tube. What changes do you make in this case? Now rocking the Mezzer as DC fork would void the warranty of the frame Dave seems to really dig the Mezzer. This is my list so far, so feel free contribute. If anything well see DC forks set at 170-80mm. So what's the new trend??? We have to change the single crown with a dual crown to ride enduro? But the in house Specialized suspension sucked! Otherwise, yes. I would definately have one, and called it freeride. Funny thing is that with single crown I felt I was going super fast too, and felt also super controlled and stable having a log of fun, buttimed results said I was slightly slower than dual crown. There should be "I'm not riding that hard" option to pick. Nevertheless awesome study and crazy engineering work! The idea isnt to compete with DH forks Formula already has the Nero there. And in my opinion for the classic average rider there there is no need because the average rider do not ride on the limits, those few times I gave the max passing my 100% looking for the PR or a KOM, the dual crown seemed to be the one that helped me a little more. this is amazing. The groove weighs double what a 29er Pike weighs and the Dorado is about 7lb for the 29er model. The last day has actually the fastest time one because I had the best fitness level through the few months of tests, it is only circumstantial that I had the single crown installed . A 2005 DH bike is a complete catastrophy compared to a modern "trail" (160mm?) I was just going to post this for everyone to see. I had the original double crown Enduro. Relative to its era of course. So maybe not all enduro bikes. WELL.. this is not a downhill fork, this is a USD dual crown prototype ENDURO fork, I replied. Formula wanted to build a double crown 180mm Selva that was lighter than any single crown 180mm enduro fork. The mechanical advantages are obvious for a few hundred grams of weight. Enduro races have pretty large transfers timings and so result of my test for the uphill clearly demonstrates that: there are no issues on climb transfers having a dual crow fork. I already have a dual-crown fork on my enduro bike and it's great. As much as I like comparisons such as this one, there just always too many variables to eliminate and narrow down the true differences in runs. The difference is not acceptable for a fair test, so the only option was to change the crowns on the Dorado and transform it into a full 37mm baby. Many good times and it rode as a trail bike just fine and did well in the park too. So why aren't fork manufacturers moving towards shorter offset DH forks? 351 Until a few years ago, there was a clear and huge gap in performance between single and dual crowns but today, after having ridden the Mezzer , I have to admit the gap is really narrow, nearly zeroed, and this blows my mind a lot: engineers did a great masterpiece with this single crown fork. Double the crown and halve the stansions problem solvedoh wait the lefty is dead except for the xc ocho which isn't even double crown damm you Dorel let the boys at cdale blow the R&D budget and bring them back. Any inside knowledge on whether that is being addressed in future models? It doesn't really make much of a difference on climbs. It wasn't so long ago that a 180mm travel double crown fork would have surely been called DH, but that's totally not the case with this still officially unnamed, extra-long Formula Selva enduro fork. Both my enduro bikes have short travel dual crown forks and will never go back to a single crown unless it's for XC. I am surprised it hasn't happened already. This isnt a DH fork and Freeride isnt dead, as Italian suspension specialists Formula are bringing back the double crown with a new 180mm Formula Selva XL enduro fork prototype thats lighter than any equally long single crown enduro fork. Compared to the 2018 36 Grip 2 Luftkappe that preceded it, Mezzer is much stouter at a similar weight. @wakidesigned:LOL! Without the cantilevered forces of a single crown, the stack height of the lower crown is actually much smaller than the regular Selva. Maybe in some of the places where you are already having to nose wheelie around the corner but then you are not loosing anything with this anyways. I do not know how the current SC froks are, but a DC does not always automatically mean steeper angles and worse geometry, as there are multiple factors that come into play. Lots of open questions here.. so single crown vs dual crown for enduro , which one is the best? This test is a test for ENDURO riding and racing, and to me this means pedaling up somewhere on an easy gravel or tarmac road no stress and then perform a flat out timed stage pointing downhill. Let me explain better: the handlebar on dual-crown is attached to the fork with a direct mount stem which gives you a pretty solid connection between the rider and the bike and at the same time, under the crowns, the fork works out the obstacles pretty nicely with its mix of stiffness and compliance, making a really pleasant ride. Sell a giga or spesh enduro with a dc and take my money!! Differences between the two were really minimal. Seen it! Suffering from bars that passed the seat after a crash on a few race srages and struggling to get them back, I'd be glad to have a limiter. It's just simply not necessary for my riding and trails. The only dual crown 29er forks I know of are the Manitou Dorado and White Brothers (now MRP) Groove. I'm surprised and at the same time not surprised by the results of the survey. none of my bikes are new enough to have one and I am not sure what it is. So wait, when we were running Totems, all of a sudden they were overkill!!! Save Share. just wondering if anyone has put a dual crown fork on there newer style enduro to make it more downhill and jump friendly? Pinkbike, I tell ya. Someone who finally gave me a "review" on it wasn't the best rider, so the only take away from his feedback is that its "too noisy", something I've heard others complain about the Ribbon. (considering it actually). I'm thinking it must not be a very good fork. Vital is getting one for review shortly. ZEB is better but not by much. Seems like the Mezzer can be pumped deeper to increase jump heights, with better control from stiffer chassis. Sentinel + Dorado @ 180mm. The 3 people I know who had them had that problem. Single Crown vs Dual Crown Fork: Which One is the Best for Enduro? Enduro Evo was a great bike, really enjoyed mine and I feel like some of my newer bikes were steps backwards compared to the Evo. And I also weigh 60kg, so probably not. Yes, if there was clear advantage and no weight penalty. f*ck weight penalty. Initially I had to think at which forks I could have brought in the test, I wanted the best of the two worlds: single and dual, but the problem was there is no specific enduro dual crown fork in the market, and so I had to pick up a downhill dual crown fork and transform it completely to make a real enduro dual crown fork. Formula Selva XL 180mm double crown fork prototype, lighter than enduro single crowns . I think another consideration about weight is rider fatigue. Its less understandable that Formula has not said a single word on it since this announcement (from what I can find). Missing option for "I don't have problems with my current setup and can't justify the weight/expense". Minimal may seem the time differences recorded with the stopwatch between both forks, but Ive seen world cups won by a fraction of a second, so a minimal difference in time could be a huge difference in real life between a world champion and a runner up. Thus, I'm wondering whether it is possible to set up a dual crown fork in such a way that compression can be adjusted externally to suit both fast and burly dh race trails as well as more slower technical enduro trails. Great work! I do warranty you that I did 100% of descents gaining the top by pedaling like in races, and every single day out on the bike I squeezed my self trying to beat my PR both uphill and downhill. define "short travel dual crown forks" please. Formula bring back the double crown with new 180mm Formula Selva XL enduro fork prototype that's lighter than any single crown fork. Also give us a butler to carry the 50lb turd to the top Or a an electric motor. I answered no because I'm not sure how tight you can turn with dual crown fork. I had a Boxxer Ride on my bike about 15 years ago. We all know the industry will iterate towards this in a couple of years. I am looking to sell it off and replace with a Boxxer 180mm for my Enduro 29. And only upside down forks please. We can observe some great timings in the chart with dual crown too done in days where I was even less trained. The dartmoor Hornet is rated for exactly that! For my 140mm trail bike, it's already working pretty well as is with single crown. 500/700g less or more won't even be noticeable unless you add them high up on the frame. Specialized had it years ago but implemented it poorly. There are a couple ways to get around the turning angle - how much would you say is the very least turning angle needed on a Enduro MTB? I answered this even though I know I dont send it hard enough to need a dual crown fork. Are you the one that thinks that your single crown is already good enough? All-new Scott Plasma RC TT time trial bike is the fastest thing on two wheels the Swiss bike maker has ever created, plus its super flexible, Whether its their early pop tunes, mid-era rock classics, or psychedelic sounds, I challenge anyone to say they dont like at least some of The, Carbon wheel manufacturer, Reynolds, has renewed its lineup of 29 and 27.5 wheels for Enduro and Downhill, now boasting shallower, more compliant rims said to, When cycling, your shoes are an important accessory that enhance comfort, control, and efficiency, and finding the best road bike shoes can help elevate your. Jus sayin. fattening sc fork stantions are one thing, but the achilles heel is still that crown-steerer interface. Then, just adding the second crown eliminates cantilevered forces at the steerer making everything stiffer even with thinner walls. Seriously awesome work. I rode an "enduro" bike with a dual crown fork (Boxxer w/ 180mm travel) for years. Compare that to a claimed Zeb minimum weight of 2.28kg with its 38mm stanchions or Fox 38 where even though Fox claims lighter weights, the lightest weve seen with oil in it and a thru-axle has weighed 2.3kg. I think they'd easily match ( or, indeed be lighter) than the "new" 38mm SCs. Pretty keen to throw some DC on my Nomad. Enduromag did the zeb vs lyrik on 170mm and they preferred lyrik. If the companies wanted to make mechanically sound products then we'd all be riding 2006-7 Marzocchi forks with Shimano XT MKI 4 pot brakes and just call it a decade. This makes for a plush topstroke with additional midstroke support, similar to the modified 36, but with easier setup. Basically, I'm occasionally racing enduro and downhill at the weekend warrior level, and I'm wondering wether such a rig would be performant in both applications. I race enduro and DH and would rather put my money towards one nice bike rather than two lesser bikes. As for when it will come to market, Formula promised an official public product launch later this year. @erikkellison: just look at eMtbs like the Rotwild R.E375 or Orbea Wild. that's why i have a full on dh bike. I cycled this loop more than 30 times in 4 months alternating the two forks: single and dual crown, and rode it in almost any climate condition, cold, hot, dry, rain, muddyIve done a total of 600 km with 30 thousand meters of climb and 30 thousand of descents: that was like doing about 15 EWS races within the time of the test. Formula bring back the double crown with new 180mm Formula Selva XL enduro fork prototype that's lighter than any single crown fork. This is the bike industry you are talking about. Anyone else ponder how to answer that might help the price of dual crown forks to come down? Weve been riding it this week in the Dolomites on a Propain Spindrift AL freeride bike, and our first impressions are feeling like a gravity superhero in the bike park. Learn how your comment data is processed. Dude, what an entertaining (and professional) 28mins! Second place single crown, with 13:46 (+20 gap) followed with a mixture of runs with dual crown and single crown. I still have my old RockShox Judy dual crown forks. Price: $9,750 USD www.specialized.com Along with the suspension changes, the Enduro borrowed a page from the Stumpjumper EVO's book, and now has a 63.9 or 64.3-degree head angle, a 76-degree. Most of the days I was riding alone, no stops, no talk, no time loss, but a few days out I ve been riding with some pro racers, people like Fabietto for instance, following me with GoPro which was a nice way to have some real video takes, like the one you are seeing in the video. That length of travel is best for dedicated DH rigs, IMO. And everything in between. I don't think everyone needs a dual crown but for heavier (Im only 190lb riding weight) riders I think the benefits start to out weigh the cons. Responses: 22648 Faves: 0 Comments: 8, Review: The Orbea Wild M-LTD Raises the Bar for eMTB, Check Out: Mons Royale's SS 23 Apparel, A Tiny Torque Wrench & Key Lime Pie Protein Powder, Slack Randoms: Triangle Wheels, Gee Atherton's Backcountry Ride & More, Final Results from the Pietra Ligure Enduro World Cup 2023, North Shore Billet Announces New Canadian-Made Talon Cranks, Review Addendum: Bluegrass Legit Carbon Helmet - I Tested It More by Crashing, ep1.pinkbike.org/p3pb20105632/p3pb20105632.jpg, www.rotwild.com/bikes/bikes/enduro/re375/pro. I wonder if it became accepted to ride a dual crown fork in enduro, whether people would start moving up to full 200mm DH forks? @mobiller: Ive had the same experience. You had custom crowns made because the offset is much larger than enduro and regular mountain bike forks. I have in the past and never had an issue on regular trails even with tight switchbacks. @pcledrew: turning radius with a fat downtube battery would be abysmal, i've thought about putting my fox40 on my metapower.. After demoing a slayer, the compromise was too great. Posted: Oct 28, 2015 at 14:55 Quote: I was wondering if anyone has any experience having a dual crown fork for an enduro bike. The only difference with your single crown enduro fork is the extra weight I have and the number of crowns, but rest of things stays the same: my body position on saddle is the same, reach is the same, handlebar height is the same, head angle, wheels, rolling resistance and so on. I ran an 888 on my Stinky from about 2007 - 2012. Have you ever ridden a dual crown fork before. So it may easily be used as . I have to admit one of the runs with the Mezzer seemed to me the winning run in the mean time I was descendingbut on a steep section at the end of trail I crashed, and so game over. I wonder if undue force from a crash would hurt the frame or the fork in a dual crown setup. Were conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Breadwinner goes stock with new A-Road steel all-road bike, 2023 Scott Plasma RC TT is The Fastest Bike Scott Have Ever Made, Astral Luna Carbon all-road wheels come ready for anything, Carbon-Ti X-Rotor SteelCarbon 3 Ultralight Disc Brake Rotors Become Real for 6-bolt & Centerlock, Silca Strips at Unbound: The Ultimate Chain Stripper and Wax Prep To Go Faster, Limited-Edition Speedster Silver Pinarello DOGMA F Will Come w/ Campy Super Record, Ride Abbey Road & Yellow Submarines with the State Bicycle Co. x The Beatles Collection, Reynolds Renew Blacklabel 307 & 309 Wheels with More Compliance for Better Tracking, Airplane Mode: OneUp Build New Squamish Trail & Raise $44,000 for Trails Associations. I figure that system is basically the same as a dual crown that would limit turning radius as it just prevents the fork crown from hitting the straight downtube. Hence why dedicated double-crown enduro forks have about 180mm of travel . I think the biggest difference it made was the confidence level I had with that setup. A dual crown has a lower axle to crown than a single crown so the difference may not be as big as you think, if at all. The enduro category is the most versatile in my eyes and double crown forks would be a problem for some slow but technical European trails. So, ya build ONE bike to suit YOUR needs. Cory Benson is the EU Tech Editor of Bikerumor.com. Wheres the option for no i have a single crown trail bike and a dh rig? Very underappreciated bike for it's time. As long as it still climbs like an enduro bike should. This was hands down one of the most interesting technical mtb videos I've seen. Would I buy one? I dont think Pinkbike knows what a trail bike is. I used to ride my '14 Giant Glory with a 05 Marzocchi 66, because they made the front higher than the dual crowns and they were buttery smooth and I kind of like good suspension feel. So if you have slip stick due to deformation, it will stay the same with a dual crown. Specialized is rolling their eyes right now. A dual crown won't be any problem with that technique. Not exactly the type on a Chromag with Ewing cranks. Most of turning on a bike comes from leaning anyways. The TEST Threw some Eagle and a dropper on it because the big hits where I live require a pedal. What is the benefit to the ride of having a dual crown vs single crown if the travel is set at say 160mm? Long live the Lefty! I know nobody wants a new standard but maybe the 1.8in tapered steerer might not be a bad idea? Yes, one can choose lighter and lighter parts, but as weve already engineered the crap out of all the other parts on an mtb, its unlikely well maintain performance and lose significant weight, so that future eMTB will never be lighter than todays equivalent MTB. Axle to crown is basically the same as the 170mm Lyrik that is on the bike now. At that point i found out the stinkys seat tube wasnt a solid piece from top to bottom, it ends where is welds to the shock mount plate. Based in the Czech Republic for 15+ years, he is a technical mountain biker, adventurous gravel rider, short & medium-haul bikepacker. Posted Apr 2, 2021. The Manitou. This is why downhill bikes feel like such a pig on smooth flow trails and why short travel bikes are slower on gnarly descents. Forza. My first proper bike was Specialized Enduro with a 180mm 888 Marzocchi back in 2009. And with that lightweight double crown comes a unique stiffness that allows for incredibly supple suspension. @wakidesigned: Good to see you, the place just hasn't been the same.Awesome choice of date to reactivate! 34 seconds more only? Junior T on my P2 back in the days of urban free riding! @iceman2058 Thank you for conducting very well thought out comparison study. Some of the descents were done with data acquisition installed, to cross checked the travel used, suspension speeds, balance, residual accelerations on the frame and many other technical numbers to make sure both suspension were set in same way: nothing strange to report here, all perfect.
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